Talking Dairy
Talking Dairy is your go-to podcast for New Zealand dairy farmers. You'll hear from farmers, scientists, and experts who share practical tips and insights to help you succeed. It's all about giving you the tools and knowledge to make the best decisions for your farm. Brought to you by DairyNZ, we help farmers lead the world in sustainable dairying by investing in research, new solutions and advocacy. Follow now and stay informed with the latest episodes.
Talking Dairy
Navigating the path to farm ownership in 2025 | Ep. 109
Owning a dairy farm is still one of the biggest aspirations people hold. In this episode of Talking Dairy, Jac McGowan talks with Blair Robinson from Dairy Holdings and Tony Finch from DairyNZ about what a pathway to farm ownership looks like in 2025. Hear what sets those are successful apart from the rest and inspiring stories of farmers who have recently turned their goal into reality.
Read or listen to the latest Inside Dairy story mentioned in this episode:
Inside Dairy - Lessons along the way to landing the dream | DairyNZ
Links to information mentioned in this episode:
Have feedback or ideas for future episodes? Email us at talkingdairy@dairynz.co.nz
Stay up to date with advice, latest research, tools and resources. Read, browse, scroll, listen, or be there in person. Visit dairynz.co.nz/get-connected
Kiora and welcome to Talking Dairy. I'm your host Jack McGowan from DairyNZ. It's great to have you with us. Today we're talking about something that's close to the hearts of many in the dairy sector, farm ownership. It's a big ambition, and while the path isn't always straightforward, there are many ways people are making it happen. Joining me are Blair Robinson from Dairy Holdings and Tony Finch from DairyNZ. They'll share stories, sector insights, and practical advice to help others on their journey. Let's get into it. Tuna Kurua, Blair and Tony. Great to have you both here. Can you start by telling us about who you are and your role? We'll start with you, Blair.
SPEAKER_01:Thanks, Jack. I'm Blair Robinson, Chief Operating Officer at Dairy Holdings. So been in this role start of my eighth season, and I've got a team of about 10, and my team look after everything operational on the farm. My background is a bit varied, ag science degree, but have spent time selling fertilizer, working for Fonterra, and a decade rural banking. So a bit of a mixed bag. Wanted to go farming. My father told me I had to go to university, which I did, and I still haven't made it back to the farm. So here I am today.
SPEAKER_00:Very good, very good. It's always either one or the other. Either you have to go to university before you can go farming, or you have to go and get a real job before you can go to university.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah. That was good advice at the time.
SPEAKER_00:Very nice. All right, and Tony, how about you? Who are you and what do you do?
SPEAKER_02:Thanks, Jack. And uh good to be here with you and Blair. I'm uh with Derien Z. My role as uh key relationship manager. I've worn a number of hats uh throughout the years uh within Dari and Z, but at the heart of it's been farmer engagement. Really keen to uh hear from Blair's perils of wisdom as someone on the at the coal face uh dealing with this day and out. My my job has been probably beyond the the farm gate, talking with farmers, listening to stories, lessons learned, and uh hopefully a few experiences and some advice I can provide through today's discussion.
SPEAKER_00:All right, Blair, Dairy Holdings has supported nearly 50 farmers into ownership, which is amazing. What are some of the different ways that people have progressed through your system?
SPEAKER_01:Our model or our system is quite the traditional model. When Dairy Holdings was formed 25 years ago, there were 50-50 share milkers in place at that time. And the great thing is that our board and shareholders have been willing or or encouraging to keep the ability for share milkers to be in the business alive over the 25 years because as an industry, the ability or the opportunity to share milk has shrunk over time, as we all know. So really thrilled that our board and shareholders still are willing to provide that opportunity. So it is the traditional method, and for us, it's tried and tested. But the pathway generally for us is people coming in either as farm managers or contract milk is the ability to rear young stock for themselves. We take that young stock, rear it on our blocks, but they grow equity through young stock, but under the protection or the lower risk model of contract milking, build up enough stock numbers to then move into the share milking role. That's got a little bit more risk, but it's also equally got a little more reward. And then it's a grind, like it's not overnight success, but we see people move, take that step, get into share milking, and then once again it's it is a grind in there again in terms of debt reduction, sticking to the basics. And you know, the couples we've had, we've had three in the last 12 months that have moved into farm ownership through that model, have then sold their herds down, either the whole herd or partial herd down, and then and then move through to farm ownership. So the tried and true way, and I guess the thing that we provide is is the vehicle. We also provide the farm system. We're doing business with ourselves, so we provide uh all the grazing and the wintering, and and our shear milkers know what their costs are going to be and can bank on a certain amount of profit year in, year out. So I guess that's what we provide is the stability they need to provide, the expertise. Our shear milkers, you know, we hope are operating at the higher end of the performance spectrum. So that's what we need from them.
SPEAKER_00:Cool. And what's a typical kind of length of time for someone to go from when they first step into contract milking to share milking and then farm ownership? I'm sure it varies.
SPEAKER_01:That's a how long's a piece of string question, because you you can do it relatively quickly. You know, the larger scale your shear milking role is, the quicker you'll build the equity. So there's two sides to that. So that's one side of it. So the smaller the the shear milking role, probably it takes a little longer. But equally, the farm purchase side of that equation, those that are willing and able to go to the West Coast or Southland, you know, farm entry levels there require a lower level of capital to get into that versus the likes of Canterbury. So we saw uh people probably able to get into the West Coast with a standing start of maybe seven or eight years getting through from contract milking to sheer milking to farm ownership. Whereas probably in Canterbury, Gareth and Haley Lewis were able to do that. Uh last year, they started or us, it might have been 13 seasons through to farm ownership. But on a reasonable scale farm here in Canterbury, 900 odd cows. So, yeah, as I say, there's two sides to that equation, and those that are that are more willing to venture, you know, into the regions where the purchase price is at a lower level, that time frame can be shortened up quite considerably.
SPEAKER_00:Cool. And Tony, from a sector-wide view, what are some of the most common and some of the more creative pathways that people are taking to ownership? Blair's talked about that sort of traditional pathway. What else is there?
SPEAKER_02:I've got a feeling I'm going to be saying what he said most of the time, to be frank. Uh, but uh like Blair touched on it, you know, that some of those traditional avenues are still very, very strong today as there always today, your shear milking model. So uh, you know, your variable herd owning or even contract milking are still very much alive today, and they seem to be the common pathways into equity partnerships of varying proportions, depending on the amount of equity you sort of garner over time. I suppose the creativity generally sits with how you create that wealth to enable you to get that step into a business type of whatever it may be, or to garner enough equity to enable you to take that first step. You know, if I was to go back 34 years, 40 years ago, uh it was probably pretty much refined to uh growth in livestock and and cash savings. And uh I suppose as time's gone on, the opportunities are very much still there. And Blair and I see them every single year, people venturing into great opportunities. But they do it via building equity a little bit differently, I suppose. I'd argue that, you know, the savings culture is still very important. The ability to save, understand the power of compounding and realizing a safe, saving over time does sort of build and create equity. Other opportunities, uh Blair's mentioned, you know, livestock within businesses, the ability to invest into livestock and let it grow organically, the opportunity to share in profit share schemes that some owners offer. So, you know, it just gives some form of incentivization that uh an individual can really work hard towards. Other creative ideas, more so these days than in the past, probably is people are looking to diversify off-farm, looking at investing off-farm rather than on. And uh, we see people looking into real estate, commercial subdivisions, the share market. I've even heard uh cryptocurrency and gold. So it there's there's no sort of what is right or wrong, as long as it's covering your cost of capital and more, and you ensure that uh the principle is you're making sure that uh cash is working for you, not you for cash uh fundamentally. And equity or some form of support can be guarantees, enables you also the ability to leverage and get into that first opportunity. So people are using guarantees a little bit more, and that can be family if you're so lucky, or it could be through building a reputation with an owner who trusts you and is willing to support you into that opportunity. There's a myriad of opportunities, they're just a few. There's a few others there, you know, at least to buy options, it could be vendor mortgages. There's a whole range of opportunities that exist today.
SPEAKER_00:Okay. So let's talk about some real stories. Can you share some examples that show how different people have made it work?
SPEAKER_01:The most recent example we have is here in Canterbury with Gareth and Haley Lewis, who I think featured in in the Inside Dairy magazine recently. So that's a great story, Gareth and Haley came to Dairy Holdings, as I said earlier, 13 or 14 seasons ago, not a lot of equity to their name, and have been able to get through to farm ownership without any family help. Either if you talk to Gareth and Haley, they don't think that it's anything special, but there's a few key things there that they've done around just staying disciplined around whether it's the savings piece or it's the debt reduction piece, compulsory saving essentially, and also just staying focused. Like it's you know, it's a hard grind through those years, year in, year out, when you know it's not that exciting when you're not buying more cows or you're not buying a new tractor or you're not buying anything, all you're doing is focusing on on debt reduction and not spending a whole heap of money but maximising revenue at the same time. Like they're they're a tough grind, and you know, had the chat with Gareth and Haley about some of their peers had ventured out and they'd bought batches or they'd bought caravans or where stud really stuck to their knitting and we're really focused over that time. So that that's a hard thing to do over a long period of time, but that's what it takes if you want to get through to the farm ownership. So, and then I guess it's a little bit of always timing, isn't it? And the willingness to take a calculated risk too. So, like I think if they were sitting here and now it might be a bit tougher to make all those numbers go around, but at the time they were able to get that deal over the line. But for them, consistency of performance and and discipline and sticking to their plan were some of the key things that uh enabled them to get where they've got to.
SPEAKER_00:Tony, anyone spring to mind for you?
SPEAKER_02:A couple, really, and uh I think I need to reiterate that we see people advancing to careers and business opportunities every year. They evolve people at different ages and stages and and relative aspirations. Yeah, it's not all about farm ownership, it could be just rural professionals. Uh, Blair's got a great example to that within his business with supervisors, which provides a really amazing opportunity as an individual to have a rewarding job as a career and salary-based. But I suppose the inspiring ones to me is new Kiwis. And by new Kiwis, I'm thinking about people that have immigrated to New Zealand with absolutely nothing but the shirt on their backs and haven't even had the money to bring their family out, which come in time. But uh through amazing work ethics, great partnerships, uh, a passion and excitement for the opportunity to be within the industry in New Zealand that they would never get overseas. Investing in things like NZDIA and uh being recognized. The example I'm thinking of, it enabled these people within 12 years to get uh recognized, uh build enough equity for a share milking job with a large-scale operator that now this season they have now purchased their own farm in partnership with these people. And so 12 years from absolutely nothing but the shirts on their back, but with firm, hard work ethics, a desire, a passion for the industry, they've been able to get to farm ownership. And I sit there going, if if they can do it, anyone can do it with the right attributes. The only other one I was thinking too is yeah, when I think about different ages and stages, you know, there is a program in Canterbury, grassroots scholarship program, which uh have been sort of really investing in young people. And through that, they build people with uh inquisitive minds, confidence, entrepreneurial young farmers that don't mind asking the why, and they challenge and they're building this amazing network around them, that those people are progressing their careers pretty quickly into farm management, contract milking and ownership roles. So there's a whole example of success stories every single year, and they're just a couple.
SPEAKER_00:You've talked about people who have succeeded without the kind of family support. Um we often hear that succession can be done well or can not be done so well. Have you got any examples of succession planning done well?
SPEAKER_01:The thing with succession is everyone who talks about succession will say this is there's no two scenarios are are the same. Each family's different around the way they want to attack it. But the thing I used to see is the businesses that underlying were were strong from a financial standpoint around their cash flow or balance sheet, it just gave them so many options that they were able to entertain. And I think in some of the other sectors outside of dairy where that's perhaps not the case, succession unfortunately is challenging. So I think for dairy, we're really fortunate that we've got a prosperous, successful industry that does allow options around succession, however they may look. So there's numerous successful uh stories around succession, you know, have been for forever. So really thankful that that's actually the case in the dairy industry.
SPEAKER_00:Comments, Tony? You're looking very thoughtful.
SPEAKER_02:No, just listening with intent. Look, succession to me, it's uh subject in itself. And I suppose, again, from a previous life in banking, it's around starting early, I suppose. So starting the conversation early, starting the planning early, as early as possible, leaving it later into life sort of narrows your field of options. So uh the advice for me is just make sure the discussion is had and you start as early as possible.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, thank you. Okay, you've touched on some of it already, but we'll gather it in one place. What are some of the key traits or habits that you see in people who successfully make the leap to farm ownership?
SPEAKER_01:They all have that passion and and goal to get there and lots fall by the wayside. So it's I don't know what the word is, the stickability or the I mean they're just driven that nothing's going to get in their way. And when you're farming for over a decade to get there, you're gonna have your setbacks. And so I think the common trait with these people is that they're you know, they're really resilient, they learn from their setbacks, a, that they can try and avoid them next time, but they pick themselves up, dust themselves off, and get on with it. And we know that, you know, if you're in the dairy industry for 10 or 15 years, that that volatility and you know, it's going to be ups, downs where it's the weather or the payout. So so I think the common traders that those people are driven, they're resilient, they'll they'll get over stuff and they'll carry on. I think too, a little bit of single-mindedness, like because you can it's great to get advice, but you can get bombarded too. And I think just picking who your mentors are that you're checking in with them rather than trying to talk to the whole dairy industry around, you know, the way forward, I think is probably something I see that they have a close-knit professional circle that provide them the guidance.
SPEAKER_00:And speaking of guidance, what support is available for people who want to progress but don't know where to start, Leah?
SPEAKER_01:I think we're fortunate that we've got a few farm owners within the business that are have got a professional career as well as uh farm ownership. I guess within the business, we're also we're a growing business, so acquisitions is part of what we do. So, you know, we've got a few ex-bankers in here too, so we have enough expertise in-house that we're able to sit down with people and just work through what a plan might look like. The early stage of that plan through the contract and share milk around the equity creation or wealth creation piece is actually relatively straightforward, as a few key principles stick to. I think the real value we're fortunately able to add to people is when they get into the farm acquisition stage, that's quite daunting. That's where we spend a bit of time just sitting down with people and working through the key things they need to be covering off. And particularly the environmental space has got quite daunting for a first farm buyer. So we do spend a bit of time with them working through the key things there that they need to be across to make sure that uh they're mitigating any any risk in the purchases they're looking at. So they still have their own independent legal advice and accountant and stuff, but we help them as much as we can. If someone asks, we're more than willing to spend the time with them because it's it's such a neat thing, and I'm thrilled that we're the industry's still able to have people getting through to to first farm uh ownership. And I hear it all the time, it's hard, dude. It's always been hard, and it always will be hard. So you always create the time for those people that want to talk about how can they uh take the next step to farm ownership?
SPEAKER_00:I remember when I joined DariNZ 20 years ago. Um even then we were talking about, you know, that pathway to farm ownership was disappearing. But it doesn't because there's always those people who are single-minded and willing to make sacrifices and find a way through. Now, Tony, what support does DariNZ have available for people who want to progress?
SPEAKER_02:It's networking for a starter. Yeah, it's identifying who the best operators. It's a small industry and we talk around this one degree of separation. By and large, we all know who the best operators are and uh where the opportunities sit and who to talk to, who not to, you know, trusted professionals. So DairyNZ does have that conduit, as does anyone in the industry, to connect those uh people that are going to make a difference in your journey. DairyNZ also has a wide range of tools, resources, events, conferences, you name it, that are uh uh are funded by farmers, for farmers to enable them to be better farmers, I suppose. So the challenge is, you know, to be connected, to be aware of what's happening in your community within the industry and get involved. Go online and immerse yourself. There's so many tools and resources that enable people to progress, to learn, to be better than before. You just need to take the time to immerse yourself, as I said. And you know, the wide ranging from uh budget templates to calculators to entry-level learnings, it's just so wide and varied. I suppose the one other really important one is benchmarking tools. Like uh I'm big on the fact that uh a great way to measure performance is to measure yourself against the best. And the way to do that is to benchmark, not against the average, against the best. So there's dairy base, there's other benchmarking tools, but you need to understand how to use those benchmarking, how to get the most out of them and how to interpret your results to make sure you are better in that field. You know, it's one of you you're talking about uh key traits and habits uh people who are successful use. Well, well, benchmarking is definitely one of those and having a good level of financial literacy.
SPEAKER_00:And from your experience, Tony, what do you see are some of the biggest hurdles that people face when they're thinking about ownership and how can they overcome them?
SPEAKER_02:Be realistic in respects to time frames. It just doesn't happen overnight. The road is not always straight. It's gonna have curves and bumps, but you've got to stay patient, you've got to be focused and keep your eye on the prize and realize that um with the right attributes, be it hard work, a passion for the industry, um surrounding yourself with the best people and really be focused, those time horizons will shorten depending on how much you sort of really dedicate yourself to that. But you've got to be realistic. It just doesn't happen overnight without hard work. Finance, it's a mindset change at uh an entry level into business. But when you're running your own business, some of these businesses are big, you know, and we're talking um assets in the millions. So, you know, getting your head around finance, understanding what your key performance indicators are around profit, be really focused on that and managing debt are important and can be quite a hurdle. Work ethics, this just doesn't happen. And uh, you know, it's not sugarcoated, it comes with hard work. It's just not going to land on your laps through good fortune. It takes good work ethics to succeed in this. And so, you know, you've got to make sure that you don't go into this thinking it's just going to happen. It will happen with hard work and good work ethics.
SPEAKER_00:Blair, what would you add to what Tony's just shared?
SPEAKER_01:Just the simple distraction that people suffer from. And that can be a multitude of things. It can be distraction once people create a little bit of wealth that they go off and they buy something that's discretionary or for luxury or doesn't fit with their plan around the farm ownership piece. So I do see that from time to time. And then it's also distraction away, probably from performance too, for whatever reason. A really high-performing couple, you know, might come off the boil a little bit, and and but you need that year in, year out. It's almost like an elite sports person for a decade there, or for a lifetime, really, as a farmer. Like it's trying to replicate year after year that level of performance right up the top. Some people are able to do that year in, year out, others seem to get distracted. Those who are able to stay focused, they've got a much, much, much better chance of achieving farm ownership.
SPEAKER_00:Okay, you've both talked about how the first step towards farm ownership is often contract milking. How do people who get that opportunity make the best of it? What do they need to do?
SPEAKER_01:Those starting out contract milking, I mean, that's a big jump in itself. You're starting their own business for the first time. So having the support round them is really important, whether that be accountant, farm owner, could be an external consultant or advisor, but having the support around them, because there will be bumps along the way. And a lot of that can actually also be about running a team for the first time if the farm has got two or three or four people involved in the team. So a lot of that can be actually coaching around, you know, getting the team to perform at a high level, too. So all of those things are important. Equally, the benchmarking piece is critically important in contract milking. You're not sharing in milk price, so you're you're not exposed to the risks of milk price. You're also not sharing in when milk price is strong. But contract milking is there for those starting out in the industry to build equity under a much reduced risk model. That's the way you kind of look at it. So for new contract milkers to understand how they're going, it's it's vital that they use Dairy Base to analyse their accounts on a on an annual basis. So you've got Dairy Base there, that Dairy and Z will fund that for contract milkers, all contract milkers throughout New Zealand to get their financial accounts benchmarked in Dairybase. So a fantastic opportunity to see how well they're going because those are the formative years.
SPEAKER_00:When you learn to run a business, well.
SPEAKER_01:When you learn to run a business, you know, and there'll be mistakes and there'll be learnings. But equally, there needs to be equity gained through those years as well, both from a cash perspective and equally if if there's stock ownership opportunities in there as well. But people need to understand how well uh they're advancing in terms of the equity piece.
SPEAKER_02:That first entry is it's a brand new business. It's sometimes the first business you've been in. So you are managing debt and you you need to be well aware of your cash flow forecasts. So spending a lot of time not only looking at cash flow your forecasts, but doing different scenarios to make sure you've got a good year and a bad year covered off. So it's building um financial literacy understanding in that sense. Watching your pennies, you know, contract milking, there's not so many levers to pull. So when it comes to expenses, make sure every dollar you spend has a return. So, you know, it's got to be looked upon as an investment. So every dollar I'm gonna spend one to get two in return. That's in a very crude sense, but I think you've got to have that mentality to watch your pennies and have that real focus on debt reduction and investment. As uh Blair's mentioned, you know, benchmarking is a critical tool to understand what the best are doing, but it's not only understanding what they're doing, it's how they are achieving it and really get down to the nuts and bolts of that.
SPEAKER_00:Now, for someone listening with goals and aspirations to buy a dairy farm, what is your best piece of advice? Just one, Blair.
SPEAKER_01:Can Tony go first while I think about it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, Tony can go first. He might steal your advice though. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I better make it good. Build the best reputation and by that be not just a good farmer, be a great farmer. So that's what you need to be aspired to, and and I believe opportunities will chase you and doors will open. So you gotta be confident, you've got to ask the right questions, network surround yourself with the very best people and farmers and advisors. They all connect opening doors, and uh be inquisitive, ask the challenging questions. So, yeah, we've covered it off a lot today, but you know, you've got to be a sponge for learnings and knowledge. You gotta really uh connect with the very best farmers, learn from the best farmers, be part of the community and build that reputation of being the very best farmer you possibly can be.
SPEAKER_00:Very good, Tony and Blair.
SPEAKER_01:If you've got the passion that there will be a way to get there, at the early stage of your career, it's about building networks and relationships and because you never quite know where they are going to come back and and create an opportunity for yourself. Probably the last piece would be uh avoiding the distraction goes without saying, really, is that those are able to stay focused and and stay the course and avoid the distractions that the dare industry is reasonably prosperous at the moment. There's lots of people coming up driveways that are trying to um take part of your earnings away from you. So those that are able to stay focused are um put themselves in a in a better place.
SPEAKER_00:Very good. Thank you, Blair. Thanks, Blair and Tony, for sharing these stories and insights. What's clear is that there's no one size fits all path to farm ownership, although the traditional pathway is still tried and true, and that's a great thing. Whether you're starting with nothing or already on the journey, there are people and organizations ready to support you. To learn more, check out the show notes for links to Dairy and Z resources and more about dairy holding support programs. You can also check out the latest Inside Dairy to read the farmer stories about how they're growing their equity and recently progressed to farm ownership too. That's it for this episode of Talking Dairy. Thanks for listening and we'll catch you next time. Matiwa. Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Talking Dairy. Make sure to hit follow so you can keep up to date with our latest episodes. You can also keep up with DairyNZ News on Facebook, Instagram, and LinkedIn, or go to our website and sign up for our fortnightly DairyNZ News emails. As always, if you have any feedback on this podcast or have some ideas for future topics or guests to have on the show, please email us at talkingdairy at dairynz.co.nz. Matiwa, Modi Order, catch you next time.